Comments on The Automated Tester: ISEB/ISTQB - Is it really worth it?

No dont say that it is useless. In my lifetime i h...

2009-09-24T07:39:22.267+01:00

No dont say that it is useless.
In my lifetime i have completed only one certification and you guys are prooving it worthless. :(

"Lets start why I think ISEB/ISTQB is good. I just...

2008-10-05T15:32:00.000+01:00

"Lets start why I think ISEB/ISTQB is good. I just said that testers have been fighting for years to remove a stigma that testing software is easy. ISEB came along and people who didn't work in the industry suddenly thought that testing was a little harder because you needed a certificate."

If you can get a certificate with absoltely no experience, just by passing a single exam, testing seems easier, not harder.

@LizI work on a relatively simple rule when it com...

2008-10-05T12:53:00.000+01:00

@Liz

I work on a relatively simple rule when it comes to applying for work, if the ISEB is REALLY a requirement, I don't want to work there.

We had so many poor quality candidates coming through at my previous company with the ISEB that I decided to do the exam. I understand now why they couldn't test and sent my certificate back. The ISEB is a complete joke and a way of hoodwinking employers into thinking that you can test. I don't believe that certification is the answer for software testing as a profession.

I'm in agreement with the original post, but in th...

2008-10-03T22:44:00.000+01:00

I'm in agreement with the original post, but in the comments is the more dangerous thinking:

Ben said "You see ISEB in the required or disirable column on job specs so it is an easier route that people understand in order to get interviews and then experience can take over."

This is one of the major problems with for-money certifications. You may take the certification so you don't lose out on a job opportunity, but you then lend creedance to the certification (especially if you are competent in the job). This becomes the positive feedback loop for clueless HR people that think the certification means something.

This is the same thinking as those that say things like "I don't really like shopping at WalMart because I know they destroy my community, but the prices are just so low..."

If you miss out on some interviews because you wouldn't shell out $2000+ for a BS certification, then so be it. If it's a recession proof industry, there will be plenty of other jobs out there.

In 95% of cases I completely agree with both James...

2008-10-03T15:18:00.000+01:00

In 95% of cases I completely agree with both James and yourself that the ISEB is useless...

The other 5% though is where I have the misfortune of cruising as I don't have a degree!

One 'requirement' for the majority of testing roles I went for prior to my current position was "Degree or equivalent certification" which means that anyone in my own situation has the choice of spending four years getting in debt or studying and passing their ISEB to move up in the world of testing.

Oh and for the record I've not needed ANY of my ISEB knowledge in any position I've held since starting my testing career 7 years ago...

I totally agree with the article. ISTQB is a good ...

2008-10-01T12:24:00.000+01:00

I totally agree with the article. ISTQB is a good vision how should be testing work in "disney land", but the in real world all the stuff works totally different. I feel an experienced tester know (almost) all that thing what ISTQB says. The only "added value" is that ISTQB play with the words and give them different explanations. I think lots of tester guys fail the exams because of this. But what is a bug, a failure, and all these stuff are soo easy and natural to understand, and they a stickler for this.
In my company the management thinks if they pick up somebody from the street (they usually pick teachers and some similar cheap resources) and force them to make the ISTQB exam they get professional testers. This is the most sore spot in the whole. But their responsibility...

I think I am agreeing with you too..Although I am ...

2008-09-04T10:32:00.000+01:00

I think I am agreeing with you too..
Although I am still a student, I believe that software testing can make a career out of IT

i personally think that certification is ridiculou...

2008-08-29T18:51:00.000+01:00

i personally think that certification is ridiculous and meaningless.

It's not a coincidence that the best entrepreneurs and programmers in the world are not certified.

I have been working as a test engineer for ~18 yea...

2008-07-23T22:12:00.000+01:00

I have been working as a test engineer for ~18 years. Recently all of the quality engineers my company was given the opportunity to take the foundation level certification. Out of 12 people on two of us passed. While I would think that a certification can delude the quality of our profession (professional test takers, not professional Test Eng.) for me it seemed to be the opposite, we are currently employing QA folk that can not answer basic test questions.
I personally like to think that a certification should be a base line for a profession and not a qualification

I googled to see if it is worth doing to ISEB and ...

2008-07-03T11:45:00.000+01:00

I googled to see if it is worth doing to ISEB and this blog came up.

I have been testing for 8 years across banking, savings, cards, home/motor insurance, medical and now in an accountancy software firm.

The main reason I am going to do the test is for my CV so someone in HR in a new company will see that and give the extra points to get to an interview stage.

You see ISEB in the required or disirable column on job specs so it is an easier route that people understand in order to get interviews and then experience can take over.

I have been working in software testing for a numb...

2008-06-05T20:47:00.000+01:00

I have been working in software testing for a number of years now including managing test projects and running test teams. I have never considered an ISEB qualification to be a necessary or even relevant qualification for testers joining my team. I see it as similar to a basic hygeine certificate for chefs, essentially irrelevant once you pass the most basic level of proficiency in the role.

None of my current team have ISEB, instead the team is built of individuals with a range of skills and experience to perform an efficient and proficient assessment of the system under test.

I have read it and I totally agree with you. I als...

2008-05-12T13:05:04.913+01:00

I have read it and I totally agree with you. I also agree with Alan's comment that just because people make a living from bringing down an industry doesn't make it right!

David

Hope you have read my post on this topichttp://shr...

2008-05-12T12:18:00.000+01:00

Hope you have read my post on this topic

http://shrinik.blogspot.com/2008/04/software-testing-certification-to-be-or.html

Shrini Kulkarni

Cons: * It devalues the testing community because ...

2008-05-12T08:40:00.000+01:00

Cons:
* It devalues the testing community because people who have no knowledge or practical understanding of what testing is or how to do it go on a five day course, become "certified" and then push themselves on unsuspecting companies as professional testers.

* Unlike other industries like accountancy, you can't be thrown out for mal practise. Once you've got the ISEB you've always got it.

* It leaves out lots of important stuff and is overly perscriptive in test techniques

* The examinations are too easy and my dead grandmother could pass them

* The certification doesn't look at professional experience or draw from any work that one has done previously

* MOST (not all) people I've met with an ISEB don't have a clue about software testing.

Hi David!That's a provocative post!I thought I'd c...

2008-05-08T22:50:00.000+01:00

Hi David!

That's a provocative post!
I thought I'd comment because I really do agree with you. I started performing tasks that could generally be described as testing in around 1985 and have tested most of the time since then. I got my ISEB Foundation earlier this year, yep 2008. I don't think not having ISEB ever stood in the way of me getting a job; experience still tends to speak for itself, but I finally landed a job where they wanted me on the ISEB course asap. We have a whole lot of formal process and exams are just part of that.

Which is fine as far as it goes. But I want a qualification like a gas engineer's Corgi diploma. I want something that says I already know enough not to blow you up and that someone without the qualification may not by law service your boiler. I think the industry needs this too.

ISEB is more like getting vaccinated. A shot in the arm and you're infused with the ability to test. Like the person sitting next to me on the ISEB course who had been a tester for about as long as me but had never once expressed any interest in testing even to the extent of googling it. All the techniques came as a surprise, not the names but the actual techniques themselves. I read somewhere recently that testing is one of the 10 most recession-proof careers, which is probably why so many random people seem to be putting themselves in for the exam. We had a huge variety of people on the course I did, including one or two middle-managers who were quite possibly recession-proofing their CVs.

I hope some of that makes sense and isn't a rant:-)